The Problem With Dashcam Videos In Germany

"Mark - Sixpots None The Richer" (marklinde)
08/19/2014 at 20:54 • Filed to: Germany, Dashcams, Kolbenfresser

Sometimes the law is a strange, abstract and frustrating affair. Just ask a driver from Munich who was involved in an accident and might be able to prove that it wasn't his fault by showing his dashcam video. Yet the judge doesn't want to see it.

In this specific case the accused wanted to turn right onto a street with two traffic lanes in each direction. He waited until the right lane was free, and just as the accused pulled out into traffic a car changed from the left to said right lane and both crashed. Of course the other driver insists that he indicated the lane change and the accused therefor violated his right of way while the accused points to his video which shows the contrary.

The judge however is of the opinion that carrying a camera around to secretly supervise other people without a specific cause violates the fundamental right of !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . He puts this right above solving cases of civil and criminal law. Thus he wouldn't allow the video as evidence.

And he isn't alone. Only a few days ago an administrative court decided that dashcams infringe information privacy and that it's therefor illegal to publish the videos for example on Youtube or to hand them over to the police as evidence.

The use of dashcams in general is tolerated however since there are grey areas at the moment. You are allowed to use dashcams for example to shoot a holiday video strictly for private use.

Opponauts, debate!

DISCUSSION (13)

Racescort666 > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer
08/19/2014 at 09:46

I wonder if you could extend this to stationary security cameras and traffic cameras? By extension, all video recording equipment in public becomes useless.

nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer
08/19/2014 at 09:51

if I have video evidence to prove I wasn't at fault then it's video evidence regardless of where it came from. I know there are rules and such to information and how the law operates but saying "nope, you have a video but I'm not allowed to look at it" seems the same as withholding evidence.

Where is the line drawn for home security cameras? Well Jimbo broke into and burned my garage down and I caught it on my security cameras monitoring my home's perimeter "yeah but you can't secretly supervise other people without a specific cause" but I'm not- I'm supervising my property. Much the same way my dash cam is supervising the front end of my vehicle. It just so happened to witness you blow that red light then remove the front end of my vehicle.

Pro Tip: if you get into an accident at a monitored intersection (red light, speed or traffic cameras) you can petition the police and they'll work with the city/company to obtain video footage of said accident.

Edit: moar!

jariten1781 > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer
08/19/2014 at 09:55

Yeah, I've seen a number of German dash cam videos pulled off Youtube over the years for this.

The crux, I suppose, is that the German courts ruled that the data cannot be cataloged and stored indefinitely. I get the concern. Perhaps a middle ground would be using a cam with a screen that the initial officer taking the report would review to determine whether or not it is relevant. If you don't show it then, it'd be inadmissible.

ttyymmnn > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer
08/19/2014 at 10:38

I'm trying to figure out how a forward-facing camera would show whether or not the other driver indicated his lane change. I imagine that the accused would be at fault whether the other driver signaled or not. But I don't know the specific statute.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > Racescort666
08/19/2014 at 21:06

The differences are: secret and without a cause.

You have to have a legit reason for filming people in public - safety or prevention of vandalism for example.

And most of the time people are being notified by information signs that they are being watched by cameras - for example on busses.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > ttyymmnn
08/19/2014 at 21:14

If the other driver didn't signal the lane change the accused wouldn't be at fault. While he theoretically has to anticipate mistakes of other drivers there is a limit to this in the real world. I mean, honestly, when would he be able to pull out into traffic if a free right lane and no indicating cars weren't safe enough?

And I don't know what the video actually shows. I think it wouldn't be such a big deal if there wasn't at least something to see on it in favor of the accused.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > jariten1781
08/19/2014 at 21:15

You might be on to something here.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul
08/19/2014 at 21:25

As long as the security cameras are only filming private grounds it's fine. Otherwise you have to have a legitimate reason for supervising people and public places/streets.

Your pro tip works just fine. Those cameras are legal and what they are showing is therefor admissible in court.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer
08/19/2014 at 21:33

Perhaps the EU could legislate an exemption for dash cams.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard
08/20/2014 at 08:17

Yes, the EU might just do this. On the other hand I don't really know how other EU countries handle dashcam videos and what interests they have in this matter.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer
08/20/2014 at 19:10

There seems to be overwhelming evidence in support for dash cams assisting law enforcement worldwide.

I think it would be okay to make them legal for vehicle safety, but perhaps not legal to publish without blurring anyone who hasn't given permission to be filmed.

Dylan Le Lerre > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard
09/17/2015 at 11:59

The Germans basically run the eu, so I dought hat will happen soon

karakal > Racescort666
01/20/2016 at 07:10

In Germany (and Austria) you must not record videos of public places. You are only allowed to record your own property, but not e.g. the public sidewalk in front of it.